Wilson Euphonium Serial Numbers
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Besson were bought by Boosey & Hawkes in 1948, by which time their serials had reached nowhere near the number your instrument bears. B&H have continued to sell instruments branded as 'Besson' since then, but I suspect that serials from this long after the merger may be found in the B&H sequence? Somebody please correct me if this is wrong. For a B&H instrument, 53.
dates it to 1972 (see It's hard to tell how good an instrument it is without further details. It has the classic British compensating fourth valve design which was, so far as I'm aware, only used on professional models.
But that's about all I can offer. Maybe Stewbones might know more?
Title: Re: Besson Euphonium question Post by: vegasbound on Sep 17, 2009, 03:11AM. Definitely a 767, aka 'Imperial,' aka 'New Standard.' The 967, aka 'Sovereign,' (introduced 1972) had a 12' bell and was engraved with the famous 'Round Stamp' logo; the 11'-belled 968 wasn't introduced until 1979, and was engraved 'Sovereign.' Definitely a professional level horn.
B&H continued to make them up until the 968 (11' bell) was debuted; and even then, many still preferred pre-1974 euro-shank 767s for their better intonation and smoother, more compact sound. Title: Re: Besson Euphonium question Post by: octavposaune on Sep 17, 2009, 08:52AM. Hello all, I have a Besson Euphonium in my shop of the same year and model, and it does not resemble the 767 in my shop at all. The Boosey and Hawkes 767 (1984) and the Besson (1972) and very different in sound and character. The 1972 Besson has better intonation and a much broader sound than the 767 and other 967/767's I have played.
My opinion is if you want a nice band horn and don't plan on soloing too much on Euphonium then absolutely get this instrument (if it is your price range). They are fantastic ensemble horns. My opinion on the 767's is particularly the later ones are substantially brighter and lighter weight than that of the Besson pictured. More of the soloistic sound I mentioned earlier. As a side note, all of the Besson/Boosey Euphoniums I have played have had the American large shank as standard.
From what little I can tell this instrument has a medium shank. While any universal large shank receiver will do, if you purchase this horn try and get a NOS or used large shank receiver for it. There are lots of British trombonists on the forum, maybe just maybe someone could locate a factory receiver for you. Besson uses a simple method for identifing their receivers. One groove on the receiver means medium shank, 3 grooves means American large shank.
Willson Euphonium Review
Couldn't tell for certain from your pictures. Good luck, Benn Title: Re: Besson Euphonium question Post by: Torobone on Sep 17, 2009, 11:03AM. As a side note, all of the Besson/Boosey Euphoniums I have played have had the American large shank as standard. From what little I can tell this instrument has a medium shank. While any universal large shank receiver will do, if you purchase this horn try and get a NOS or used large shank receiver for it. There are lots of British trombonists on the forum, maybe just maybe someone could locate a factory receiver for you. B&H/Besson did not switch to the large shank on the 767 until April, 1974, so assuming the 1972 date for the serial number is correct, it is a medium shank, unless it was a custom order or the receiver was changed at some point after the horn left the factory.
I don't particularly recommend converting to a large shank since it will change the blow, intonation, and response, but Mark Carter (aka Mr. Tuba, or are your best bets for finding a factory receiver if you DO decide to make the conversion. (Title: Re: Besson Euphonium question Post by: fsung on Sep 17, 2009, 11:35AM. The 1972 besson (I own) is original. Nothing has ever been changed and it is a factory large shank. I am the second owner and am still in touch with the original purchaser. Yes Besson made large shanks as an option early on.
Medium shanks were standard. As far as changing the blow, yes a large shank will change the blow, but if it is a factory receiver then it shouldn't matter too much.
The leadpipes were the same regardless of the receiver, just the machining on the tapered part. I can post pictures next week. I took a better look at the pictures on Ebay and yes it looks like a medium shank receiver (one groove) Good luck on your bidding, and expect to pay some for repair/modification if you get it!! Benn Title: Re: Besson Euphonium question Post by: normrowe on Sep 17, 2009, 12:50PM. Most people have provided good, accurate information so far but I think there are just a few wrinkles. It is a Besson 'New Standard' from 1973. The 767 numbering system didn't come in until later.
It is a professional level instrument with the famous (IN-famous) fully automatic compensating system invented in the late 1800s by David Blaikey who was the designer and acoustician at Booseys. It has the old size mouthpiece receiver which was between medium bore trombone and large bore trombone in size.
Denis Wick still makes 2 mouthpieces specifically for these euphoniums-6BM and 4AM (corresponding to 6BL and 4AL or 6BS and 4AS trombone mouthpieces). I think the mouthpiece in the picture is a medium bore trombone mouthpiece with tape to stop it rattling around. These M mouthpieces have the same size shank as the old British G bass trombones. The valve tops and finger buttons are unique to the 'New Standard' range and seem to be correct with the exception of the 4th valve which has the wrong finger button- I can't see the valve top clearly enough to comment. Just a word of advice- always depress the 4th valve and swing the 'frying-pan' round to hold it down whenever you are putting the instrument in the case. If you don't, you can easily bend the 4th valve stem! The instrument has some expected knocks but the worst seems to be in the compensating knuckle between the 1st and 2nd valves.
A technician will probably give a more accurate assessment of that than I can. The idea of replacing the receiver may be more difficult than it seems. I have just checked the B&H, obsolete instruments spare parts on the 'Windcraft' site (www.windcraft.co.uk) but the part is not listed-Windcraft got all the old spares from B&H/Besson when they moved from Edgeware about 10 years ago.
I don't like the idea of grafting on a modern large shank receiver. However it seems, from Denis Wick's site that the receiver from a Willson euphonium might fit. Just a bit of additional information; B&H/Besson also made a 3 valve version of the 'Imperial/New Sandard' which were fully compensated but these are rarer. Hope this helps Stewbones Title: Re: Besson Euphonium question Post by: Torobone on Sep 17, 2009, 02:57PM. Good summary, Stewbones. There is the ad, and it seems our powers of observation were correct.
(It says: The horn has an adapter in the leadpipe to use a regular shank mouthpiece but you can remove the adapter and use a large shank mouthpiece also. It's also interesting, the 3-valve compensating (rarer?) model is going for more than the 4-valve.
Wilson Euphonium Serial Numbers
I'd take the 4th valve any day. It will be interesting to see the final auction price.